The recent riots and looting in the UK have made me think a lot about crime in Turkey. I was mainly spurred on by listening to all the comments flowing from the lips of irate British ex-pats and holiday makers who were watching television to see their home towns descend into anarchy and chaos. I heard the following comments more than once…
“The Turkish police would not put up with that nonsense”
“I can tell you now that the Turkish police would beat the s*** out of them”
Now it would be a mistake to think that rioting does not happen here in Turkey because it does. Occasionally, peaceful demonstrations in large cities get out of hand and there are many occasions when I have picked up the newspaper to read stories of rioting in towns like Diyarbakir.
However the major difference is there is an unwritten rule that you do not s*** on your own doorstep. Yes, riots in Turkey are so dignified that you aim for the police, their vehicles and nothing else. If you start damaging and looting people’s homes or business, you better have a miraculous ability to wake up the next morning with a new face and identity.
Crime in Turkey and the Turkish Police
The main conversations in the ex-pat community were comparing the Turkish police with the British. In these conversations, the Turkish police were suddenly elevated to this status of super gods and anyone would think that crime in Turkey did not exist. Now, I have to admit that I have never been a hard core supporter of the Turkish police. This would date back to memories of overinflated speeding tickets, domestic violence against women that was ignored and a general attitude of “do as I say and not as I do”.
The Turkish police however do live up to the typical stereotyped role and not many people would like to cross swords with them. Crime in Turkey overall is relatively low however in the big cities like Istanbul; pickpocketing of tourists is rife and in my own town of Altinkum, burglaries stats have gone through the roof. Criminals will struck when opportunity lets them and no “Rambo” stereotyping of the police force can prevent that.
But in Turkey, It Is Not About The Police
It would be a mistake to think that the low crime in Turkey is purely down to the police force because it is not. The low crime is because of culture and society. Generally, there are three things that are at the heart of every Turkish community. Pride, Families and Livelihood
If you try to threaten any of the above, then you are forewarned that you have made enemies for life. I do not know many Turkish people who would call the police if they felt an intrusion into their lives by someone intent on damaging and destroying any three of the above key elements. They would deal with it in their own way.
In the case of the Turkish shopkeepers in Hackney who defended their shops against looters, their livelihoods were threatened and this would have a knock on effect on their family’s well-being and ultimately their pride.
The Fine Line Between Defending Your Property and Vigilante Action
In my first year of living in Turkey, I learned harshly that the police do not rule the streets and sometimes defending your property can develop into an incident much worse. I had settled in the tourist, coastal resort of Marmaris and was a witness to an incident that has stayed with me to this day. A man had lifted an item from a shop without paying for it. Five shopkeepers were chasing him down the street; they caught him and gave him the kicking of his life. You might say “Bravo” because after all, he was a thief.
I say different because I looked at the soles of that man’s shoes as they were hanging off. I saw his unwashed skin and his tattered and old clothing. The man was on the poverty line and for all I know was stealing to provide for his family. The loud cracking sound that I heard was explained to me as the sound of his skull cracking. That is one memory that I have from my time in Marmaris and eleven years later, I still cannot get it out of my head.
So What is The Answer to the UK Riots?
There isn’t one particular answer. As an expat in Turkey, it is easy to sit in a bar, drink ice cold beer and declare the answer to the UK riots as bad policing and not enough power. However when people are in power, there is always a small element that will abuse that power for their own means. Be careful what you wish for.
While ordering your second ice cold beer, it is easy to suggest that people need to start becoming vigilantes. Vigilante action is often powered by anger and the need for revenge which can sometimes leads to actions that are far much harsher than the crime that has been committed.
Can an honest decent citizen who has performed an act of horrific violence because of rage honestly look back in later years and express no remorse? Yes, by all means defend your property and your family, but do not be under the illusion that you won’t unconsciously cross that fine line in the heat of the moment.
Picture Taken From The Daily Mail
Crime in Turkey
I am not under the illusion that Turkey is sown up lock, stock and barrel when it comes to crime, but I do know that I feel a lot safer on the streets of Turkey than I ever felt in the UK. You will never see looting and crime in Turkey on the grand scale that we have just seen in the UK, because there are unwritten rules firmly engrained into society and communities and these rules revolve around pride, families and livelihoods. Throw a little bit of respect into the mixture along with a sense of community spirit and everyone is prepared to deal with the tough times without turning on their own.
You have family in Turkey with you? What took you to Turkey to begin with? How long have you been there?
Shawn recently wrote about..It Seems a Clothes Dryer – Is an American Thing
Fully agree with the ‘Pride, Families and Livelihood’ part. Just before I left Turkey at the beginning of the riots I was speaking to some friends with a bar who essentially told me the same as in this post, aim it at the police, but not at anyone’s property.
I believe this is where the minority of youths in the UK are lacking in morals to respect other people and their livelihood which is a extremely sad reflection on my generation.
Kirst. recently wrote about..It’s the final countdown
good read once again Natalie
i have to say being the mother of a police officer in the uk they have got one hand tied behind there backs and a very hard job to do
im sure you have seen the tv footage over there of gangs running riot on our streets with mask’s and scarves around there faces
the police can not remove those mask’s because if they do its assault i dont no what the answer is but it cant go on
we have had it too good here for too long the monney is running out the youth of today are not going to get everthing for nothing they are going to have to work for it and they dont like that
you can see what happens when they are told no
@Shawn – My English family are not here in Turkey with me. I married into a Turkish family and I first came here for a two week holiday! This will now be my eleventh year in Turkey. Tried to read your blog but it says invite only.
@Kirsty – I think the belief that you do not aim your anger at anyone else’s property is the key. It starts with the community and respect for others. Even if you do class yourself as hard done by, there is no reason to attack anyone else who just wants to work and fend for their families.
@Phil and Di – I think looking at the police for answers as to what happened in the UK is wrong. People need to look at communities and why these people crossed the line of destroying their neighbours properties and also taking their lives as we saw in Birmingham.
The police should be the last resort when it comes to crime. Start with what makes people act like this. Personally, I feel that in the UK anyone over the age of 16 who is not in full time employment or education, should be made to do national service or at least attend their local TA centre. Install pride back into these peoples lives because it is obvious that they have no pride or self respect.
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Hmmm! Could get into some serious stuff here, except it would need to be a different forum. As an ex-para I can assure you that the Regulars do not want a return of National Service. Important not to think that I excuse what has happened – however, this is another face of ‘Feral Capitalism’ , people on the streets doing no more than emulating the ruling class and stealing whatever they can. Think of the behaviour of politicos, bankers, industrialists – think of illegal wars for resources. The night that Cameron was vowing revenge on the ‘thugs and thieves’ of Tottenham and Birmingham, ‘our boys’ carried out a air raid on village near Tripoli that killed 33 children, 32 women and 20 men every one of them guilty of being civilian in need of protection from Ghadaffi! How much coverage did that get? No money for social programmes, real jobs but plenty to grab the assets of another country.
ps good post, Natalie.
Hi Alan, Yes that is another discussion that could go on for ever. I too, am well aware of the crimes from those in higher power and I often call for the Uk government to pull out of other countries and concentrate on its own. I have noticed that the Uk government is rather selective in who it “defends” and this is proven by their lack of involvement or disclosure in the diamond fields of Zimbabwe.
However I do feel that national service would install some routine and pride back into the lives of these people that rioted. If national service is a no go area, then at least daily enrolment at a TA centre. Hhhm – I feel a post about Turkish national service coming on now.
Natalie recently wrote about..My Short-lived Membership of the Elite Turkish Housewives Club
Thank you Nat for a balanced post so different from the rants I’ve been reading. I agree with Alan. I was born into the army and my sergeant major father would have been horrified by the prospect of the armed forces being overwhelmed by thousands of reluctant teenagers with bad attitudes. The British Army is professional because it’s voluntary. Besides, conscription is not part of British culture and has only ever been used as a last resort during periods of national survival and the immediate aftermath. We expats can live peacefully here in Turkey secure in the knowledge that the chances of becoming a victim of crime are low compared to the West. This is because crime in Turkey takes different forms and is often hidden from public gaze. As you rightly identify, Turkish society is held together by strong family bonds and a sense of honour. The downside to this laudable tradition is the high level of domestic violence, child abuse, blood feuds, honour killings and the like (and of, course, don’t get on the subject of being gay in Turkey). All nations have their problems and I was repulsed by what I saw happening in English (though not Scottish or Welsh) cities. The trouble is our politicians don’t have the bottle to do anything meaningful to resolve the deep-rooted multi-generational problems that caused the riots. I despaired when I watched Eton-educated David Cameron doing his ‘we’ll fight on the beaches,’ speech on the steps of 10 Downing Street. Cameron is no Churchill. Compare this to the reaction from the leaders and people of Norway who, only a few weeks ago, suffered their greatest national tragedy since the Second World War. They talked of peace, understanding and reconciliation, not revenge and retaliation.
PS to Shawn. I had the same problem as Natalie.
Jack Scott recently wrote about..Riots in London
i agree with you put them in the army but the army dont want the scum bags either
there is talk of making them work for there dole but there will be some do gooding busy body who says no its slave lobour
i say if you dont want to work for your dole get a job
Having twice seen Turkish police officers giving someone a heavy smack in Istanbul I’m not sure I want British police to follow their example too much.
One incident happened outside a hospital. I was told the police had taken their victim there to get him patched up from an earlier beating.
Shane recently wrote about..Expats, the Property Ladder and the London Riots
Jack – I do feel that the root of the problem lies somewhere deep down in the knit work of these societies and their cultures. Re the national service – if the army does not want to change the attitudes then the government should think of some other purpose to give these rioters and I don’t mean pool tables like some people have called for. Everyone has to have a purpose for getting up in the morning. That is the first step of feeling pride.
@Di – I think making them work for their dole would be a good option to the national service. What the government says and what it does however is two different things. I feel the government of the UK is just throwing out any old comments at the moment to try and calm down the public anger.
@Shane – Exactly. Give people too much power and there will always be an element that abuses it.
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What a bunch of crap written totally “one-sided” from a Turk, just to prove something that cannot be proven. “Pride – Family – Culture”? Seriously??? Last time we all checked, Turkey has an extremely low level at the human rights issues, something that stops them from entering the EU, has invaded Cyprus just 35 years ago, killed thousands of innocents and still holds strong to the problem they caused there with their attitude. There is also a huge “Freedom of speech” issue…. also very well known. From journalists till artists (directors, script writers) they all face judgement if they dare to say anything that isn’t with the goverment’s side. There were many protests recently in Turkey against the current government, protests that led to the imprisoning of many young people. So, I am sorry but try to sell all this crap to those who haven’t got any idea about what Turkey is, who haven’t travelled to Turkey and of course to those who haven’t watched the “Midnight Express”. LOL. Good luck with that.
Hi Peter, Actually I am not a Turk and this comment just reflects that you never actually read the article – I am referring to the sentence that I wrote “in my first year of living in Turkey”. This is a big indication that I, the author am not Turkish.
Also human right issues, Cyprus and the lack of freedom of speech are all other discussions to do with the government. This article is about societies and communities. So your further comments are the same as you writing an article about the cultures and societies in the UK, and me coming onto your blog (ever so rudely) and spouting off about Northern and Souther Ireland.
Oh and re the midnight express. LOL X 6. You do know that the film was fabricated don’t you? Admitted by the director and the main role himself. Good luck with searching Google on that but you won’t really need it because this fact is plastered all over the internet. Shame it passed you by.
Oh and next time you comment on my blog, please realize that I can approve / disapprove / edit comments as I see fit so If you can not even find it within yourself to be polite please do not comment. Many thanks. Have a good day.
Natalie recently wrote about..My Short-lived Membership of the Elite Turkish Housewives Club
I agree with most of the above, Natalie. I am glad you are such a good friend of Turkey. Although it does have its fair share of crime, you just can’t compare Istanbul to London or New York, way safer than those two.
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Peter
i dont want to get into a slanging match with you your report above is down right rude you dont need to talk like that to get your point across
just because you dont agree with Natalie you dont have to attack her if we all agreed with each other the world would be a very boring place
healthy debate is a good thing and we should all be able to talk to each other but your posting was rude i think you should delete it and starte again
A balanced article and very good observations. I also enjoyed the discussion, Jack’s comment in particular.
I believe Turkey is improving in this aspect and have high hopes Turkey will be a better place to live in the coming years. I wonder your opinion about how Turkey changed (and where it is heading) within the 11 years you’ve spend here, Natalie.
Thank you.
Levent. That is a very good question. For every step that I see Turkey is moving forwards, it takes another step back. I am concerned about the rise in cost of living, the dedication to materialism that seems to be appearing in the younger generation and I wonder if Turkey is moving to a “nanny state” when I read about internet filters that are appearing.
Having said that I think Turkey has finally woken up to the fact that it does not need to hang on to the tail coats of the East or West and it is indeed strong enough to stand up and be powerful as a major player within world relations. Concerned about the future especially when I read that Turkey has already had billions of Euros in pre-accession funding from the EU. I am a hardcore critic of the EU.
I am keeping my eye firmly on the ball for the next ten years within Turkey. What about you? What are your thoughts?
Excellent observation, I agree entirely. And I’m please you did not mention of sharia paranoia and other smoke screen bull-poopoo.
I have three worries; the polarization within, erosion of family values, and this SE problems.
Because of my job I’m in contact with many peopel from middle east. I see an increasing influence of Turkey there , and I’m not talking about state/government level. Turkey has a de-facto “leader” role within the geography. There are a lot of opportunities lyin there for all parties. and for peace.
If you look at history Turks themselves destroyed 15 out of 16 states of Turks. If we can’t have a common objective “outside” we start “nagging” or fighting each other.
It seems because of the current conjuncture Turkey and Turkish started to feel some objectives outside Turkey.
And this is only possible by gaining the identity and values we tried to disown within the last century.
I mean if we can manage to put religion without sliding into any extremism, I believe a bright future is awaiting us.
Sorry for the quick and disoreder reply.
Levent recently wrote about..Black And White
Natalie, you rock! One of the things I enjoy about reading your blog is how tactfully you handle the (sometimes rude, sometimes stupid) comments. That you actually reply to comments is a big deal to me and it appears to your readers also! Wow! I have looked at too many blogs that were well written, comments were made and no one came back even to thank the commentator. You go girl
Thanks Johnny. Sending you an email now.
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